MK: A valorous coalition of the wounded…
Political activist and commentator Phapano Phasha labored on the election verbal substitute approach for MKP after resigning from the African Nationwide Congress (ANC), but didn’t join the occasion. In this interview with BizNews, she says many of the parents which agree with joined MK ”are wounded…are working to the subsequent most efficient declare”. On the
Political activist and commentator Phapano Phasha labored on the election verbal substitute approach for MKP after resigning from the African Nationwide Congress (ANC), but didn’t join the occasion. In this interview with BizNews, she says many of the parents which agree with joined MK ”are wounded…are working to the subsequent most efficient declare”. On the change hand, it is a “valorous power on yarn of unfortunately folks that adjust the politics of this nation haven’t learned anything else. They haven’t learned anything else from funding the president of the ANC. The ANC is as unsafe and as bankrupt as earlier than.” As for the Government of Nationwide Unity (GNU), she prices that it’s no longer “premised on any morality”. On the flexibility held in MKP by outdated President Jacob Zuma’s daughter Duduzile, she says: “…you cannot touch her, neither are you able to quiz her”. As for why Floyd Shivambu left the Economic Freedom Warring parties (EFF) to affix MKP, she feedback: “…he’s factual saving his political pores and skin. Whether or no longer he’s going to live on, that’s another declare”. Indirectly she believes that if capital invested in dusky abilities, “we are in a position to watch an odd form of voter who does no longer stir to a new occasion every season, but a voter who appears to be like at the philosophy of a occasion, who appears to be like at the meritocracy; if the occasion has essentially the most attention-grabbing folks that can again”.
Register to your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to encourage you up to slip with the explain material that matters. The publication will land for your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Registerhere.
Learn about here
Concentrate here
Summary of the interview
In an extraordinary BizNews interview, political activist Phapano Phasha, who crafted MKP’s election approach after leaving the ANC, opinions the occasion landscape. She describes MKP’s new participants as “wounded” and working to “the subsequent most efficient declare,” while condemning the ANC’s chronic corruption. Phasha also criticizes the Government of Nationwide Unity’s lack of steady foundation and questions the motivations at the attend of excessive-profile political strikes. She advocates for investment in dusky abilities to foster told, philosophy-pushed balloting.
Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.315)
South Africa’s political landscape modified with out warning and dramatically earlier than the final election. And insiders predict that there’s going to be another expansive shift earlier than the subsequent election. We talk about to activist and political commentator, Phapano Phasha. Welcome Ms. Phasha.
Phapano Phasha (00:22.668)
No, thank you so worthy and neatly, morning to your viewers. Thanks so worthy.
Chris Steyn (00:31.157)
Could presumably well presumably moreover we initiate in the initiating. Can agree with to you resigned from the African Nationwide Congress, did you join MK or what role did you play?
Phapano Phasha (00:42.062)
Successfully, I would possibly presumably well no longer agree with joined the MK on yarn of it was as soon as factual too soon on yarn of I had left the ANC in October. The ANC, sorry, MK was as soon as in point of fact registered earlier on, but it indubitably was as soon as obviously formally launched in December. What I factual determined to fabricate is after I was as soon as, on yarn of I, factual to come up with presumably ancient viewpoint…I was as soon as approached factual earlier than MK was as soon as fashioned and I had mentioned no I couldn’t join MK on yarn of I was as soon as still in ANC at the time and after I left the ANC in October and I started enticing with quite so a lot of folks inside the ANC, on yarn of for me it did no longer fabricate sense on yarn of I knew that the parents that wished to form MK, who had fashioned MK at the time, these agree with been these that I had grew up with. I knew them from the ANC Early life League. And I had engaged at the time my regional secretary and I told him that two these that I know agree with been section of MK. So I thought that it was as soon as prudent at the time that he speaks to them. After which in December, I also spoke to Benjani Chauke. And I had requested that he engages. And I thought that he, on yarn of he was as soon as deployed in KZN, he would agree with better proximity to agree with interaction presumably the Presidency so that they’ll salvage a mode to be clear that that President Zuma does no longer join MK.
After which unfortunately it did no longer happen. So MK was as soon as fashioned in December, no longer fashioned in December, but there was as soon as a launch in December, on the 16th of December, which was as soon as the day that Umkhonto we Sizwe was as soon as formally launched, I believe in 1961. So MK was as soon as formally launched and round January or so, I was as soon as then known as in to come attend and again with the verbal substitute, but to affix as neatly.
Phapano Phasha (03:01.198)
I factual couldn’t on yarn of I had engaged with this comrades of mine and I mentioned that, I’ve factual left the ANC with tons of anguish. I will’t creep attend to MK since the parents that agree with been forming MK agree with been comrades who agree with been from the ANC. So it will possible be admire leaving the ANC and joining a mini-ANC.
So in direction of elections, I was as soon as then known as in. You recognize, we in the most principal…Nhlamulo Ndhlela was as soon as then appointed as the spokesperson and Head of Dialog. So after I came in, in any case, I fashioned his political yarn on yarn of he came from the industry world and he was as soon as no longer in any case a political person. So, I mainly assisted him with the statements, with the yarn.
After which I requested a person that I had labored with earlier than to come attend and likewise again us. But in the most principal, was as soon as mainly election verbal substitute approach for MK. So we’re in any case in the background… and we agree with been factual accountable for the verbal substitute approach as you would possibly presumably well per chance agree with seen it and the ability and yeah, that’s what that was as soon as primarily my role. Thanks.
Chris Steyn (04:30.933)
Now, how fabricate you are feeling now referring to the parents that agree with been allegedly fervent on Pronounce Sapture joining MK and sitting in parliament for MK?
Phapano Phasha (04:45.698)
Successfully, I believe as you rightly hiss, , they’ve no longer yet been found guilty by any court of regulation. But it be crucial to accept that MK, it’s a occasion of the wounded. They would possibly presumably well per chance need committed the crimes, they’ll no longer agree with committed the crimes, but in the public arena, they obviously fabricate hiss that they did no longer commit any crimes. Successfully, they are there in the bulk.
But I believe it also…Learn about, in the event that they are as guilty as the Zondo Commission says they are, I believe by now, one would then be the NPA or Pronounce Enforcement Agency to impeach why there’s no longer been, , acceleration to be clear that that in the event that they are guilty, , they creep to court etc.
Sonthey are there in MK, they are in Parliament and they also there to explain a point, obviously. And what you even agree with, even agree with the ANC on the change hand, which also has many folks which can presumably well per chance be supposed to be fervent on Pronounce Capture. So what you’ve is a toxic combination of these that in the public arena. We’re told that they captured the Pronounce, but they are representing us in Parliament.
So my feelings for now, I imply, I’ve labored with these folks. I imply, I defended them. So I believe my feelings are inappropriate. What now needs to happen is obviously justice needs to grab its direction. If they are guilty, I don’t think that they’ve to be representing us. The very same map that, , with the parents which can presumably well per chance be from the ANC who’re in Parliament. But it indubitably’s a unhappy indictment that just a few years later, we’ve no longer seen worthy performed in relation to those allegations of Pronounce Capture.
Chris Steyn (06:50.209)
Can you explain us why Floyd Shivambu left the Economic Freedom Warring parties to affix MKP?
Phapano Phasha (06:57.388)
Successfully, I’d think, admire many political entrepreneurs, that he’s shopping for his new home where he’s going to thrive politically. At the 2d, MK is the subsequent most efficient declare. All individuals who has failed or is possible going to fail is inclined to affix MK, which is a unhappy indictment.
And for me, it goes attend to no doubt a number of the the reason why I would possibly presumably well no longer join MK, on yarn of no doubt a number of the points that one spoke of is the truth that, at the time, let me factual talk about on myself, I was as soon as rather adamant that MK has no ideology and it has no philosophy. It’s factual a team of folks which can presumably well per chance be either from the, in point of fact, many folks which can presumably well per chance be wounded. And now, I imply, I in any case agree without a longer been proven rank. You’ve obtained a Floyd Shivambu who left the EFF, which premises itself as a Marxist-Leninist organisation, and he goes to MK, which for the time being does no longer agree with any ideology.
However the projections are that MK will garner extra votes, especially with the ANC inclined to switch down. So he goes to place his political profession. And it’s rather evident that Julius Malema goes to contest for the third duration of time. So I believe he’s his age and he’s his political prospects. And he’s also the prospects of the EFF and it does no longer detect good. I know, things would possibly presumably well per chance commerce for the EFF in the discontinuance to future on yarn of they are still young, but he goes to the subsequent most efficient declare.
MK does thrive on Zulu hegemony, no longer necessarily that it’s tribal, but it indubitably does thrive on Zulu hegemony. And where we’re, it is rather evident that the parents of KZN would continue to vote for it. And as you would possibly presumably well per chance agree with seen with this by-elections, the brand new by-elections, they’ve gained two now. So he’s factual saving his political pores and skin. Whether or no longer he’s going to live on, that’s another declare.
Chris Steyn (09:14.293)
What role does Duduzille Zuma play in MKP precisely?
Phapano Phasha (09:21.816)
Successfully, fortunately, Dudu is President Zuma’s daughter. So her role is extra a paternal. Clearly, you cannot touch her, neither are you able to quiz her. I imply, you’ve any individual admire myself who played a actually vital role inside MK, but you would possibly possibly’t in any case live on. And I believe that’s after I detect attend and I also think of many other folks that set their time, who set their lives as neatly to be clear that that MK grows and it wins elections. The precise indisputable truth you would possibly possibly factual be removed in MK with out any 2d thought.
But then you obviously know that on yarn of there would possibly be Duduzile and he or she does no longer talk about loads to be factual, but she is discontinuance to her father. She is her father’s daughter. After which you even agree with Nklamulu who’s the son of “Joe” Ndhlela and the nephew to Tom Moyane. So they cannot fabricate any rank. And I believe for me, these are the limitations with MK. I imply, after I spoke up, I mentioned, no, but here is nepotism. But folks don’t in any case, folks inside MK fabricate no longer watch it admire that. They’re admire, no, but don’t personalise it.
But will agree with to you are a seasoned baby-kisser and likewise you detect at meritocracy, you talk about to those items. But how I watch it is that her father wants her to develop. Her father needs to switch away a legacy for her. Whether or no longer it’s like minded or unsuitable, that’s one declare. B ut then you prefer to accept that MK is premised on a personality of cult. And it’s no assorted also to the politics of , of the ANC or pos-1994 politics, on yarn of all political events, along side the ANC from President Mandela to President Ramaphosa, premised on the politics of populism and personality of cult, where you cannot quiz a leader according to clear ideals to recount that, okay, that’s the person licensed to be for your nationwide structure. That you just would possibly’t query these questions
Phapano Phasha (11:46.126)
And I believe the change declare is that, for me, which was as soon as in any case a purple flag, was as soon as that she was as soon as essentially the most attention-grabbing girl who was as soon as in the Nationwide Intervening time Committee of MK. Now I know how senior I am to one of the most folks that agree with been there in the Nationwide Intervening time Committee, along side Nklamulu, that I was as soon as helping and that I was as soon as shaping and training. After which they then hiss to me, you would possibly possibly’t join the NIC. And I’m admire, wait a minute, but I’m factual going to be one girl inside the NIC and on yarn of she’s obviously there on yarn of of proximity to her father, I would possibly presumably well per chance be betraying many females who sacrificed their lives to be clear that that females seize part in politics. Many folks which can presumably well per chance be discontinuance to me fabricate no longer perceive my thinking. And at the same time as you’ve obtained this ideal change to be main in the Nationwide Intervening time Committee of MK, you’ve this probability to switch to Parliament since the bulk of folks which can presumably well per chance be in the NIC at the time, from the Chair and the Treasurer, I knew all of them. Now you’ve an alternate to elevate yourself. And I factual couldn’t.
And I believe as worthy as, , I believe also Dudu is rather protective of her father and there are also folks that surround her. So it…for me, it seemed admire, , no longer, , at the same time as you, no longer Communist, , I wouldn’t desire to recount, or, , align Communism to any detrimental connotation, but where folks, , you’re the least bit times trying over your shoulder…Baba, or Father, any individual is rarely any longer for your aspect. So it’s no longer, after I was as soon as there, and I know even now, there’s tons of distrust – and one of the most distrust is rarely any longer even correct. If they don’t desire you, in the event that they’re performed with you, they’ll factual fabricate up one thing.
But she does play a actually instrumental role on yarn of she is her father’s daughter. I imply, it’s admire a family industry. What are you able to fabricate? What can any individual admire myself fabricate who joins an entity? There’s completely nothing you would possibly possibly fabricate.
Phapano Phasha (14:09.9)
It’s either you undergo and grin it on yarn of you desire political energy, on yarn of at the cease of the day it’s about energy. Otherwise you detect at every thing, your personality and every thing that has fashioned you. And likewise you factual hiss, neatly, I’ve played my section, but that’s where it ends.
Chris Steyn (14:29.579)
Now the day outdated to this there was as soon as another defection from the Economic Freedom Warring parties to MK. Attain you mediate MK goes to bleed the EFF dry?
Phapano Phasha (14:35.938)
Mm.
Phapano Phasha (14:42.284)
Successfully, the day outdated to this I seen that Mpho, who was as soon as the first President of the EFF Pupil Picture, joined MK. But currently he’s very insignificant. He’s currently a substitute union leader at UNISA. He factual lately fashioned a substitute union. And , with…If you detect at, will agree with to you detect at Floyd, will agree with to you detect at just among the parents that agree with been section of the EFF, and now they’re going to MK, they’ll agree with joined MK obviously earlier than MK gained elections, gained 14% of the votes. They would possibly presumably well per chance need performed that, but they couldn’t on yarn of opportunism did no longer, , it was as soon as no longer of their judgment of right and wrong. It did no longer fabricate sense to affix a occasion that is, , that’s does no longer agree with any representation in legislature and in Parliament. So now after they detect at the numbers of the EFF and they also detect at the numbers of MK, and clearly the truth that MK has a foul, it has a province that it will agree with to count on to, know, to garner extra votes, they’d to switch away the EFF. And there would possibly be, , when one appears to be like at the political atmosphere, it is possible that many folks are still going to switch away the EFF. I imply, I still agree with many, particularly females, pronouncing that they desire to switch away the EFF.
But after I mediate it, the EFF is rarely any longer necessarily assorted to MK in relation to how management is structured. You’ve a excessive show; no assorted to MK. You even agree with an entrenched personality of cult. So I believe they’ll fabricate neatly on yarn of they are factual going to MK on yarn of it’s unique, on yarn of they’ve been promised positions, obviously, in the event that they fabricate. So I’m hoping that the EFF will commerce its approach on yarn of clearly with this obsession with launch borders, accurately or incorrectly, did no longer again them in the final election.
Phapano Phasha (17:07.498)
And in any case when folks detect at Julius, and at the same time as you detect at the form of voters who’re still highly cultured, it will be that it’s time that Julius reprises the ANC and no longer sorry, the EFF and repositions it. No longer that he must commerce tons of himself, but I believe it’s crucial that he begins to explain folks a new yarn of what he intends to fabricate on yarn of, as I mentioned, the yarn of launch borders has no longer in any case assisted him. But over and above that, I believe his relationship with Floyd did no longer also again him on yarn of they agree with been both highly combative and some considered them to be highly disrespectful at the a linked time. So, I imply, he’s rising up. So with any luck he’s going to be in a field to commerce his politics on yarn of most political events for the time being are obviously the impending native elections. So he’s going to salvage no longer easy at the impending native elections so that he’s in a field to garner ample votes.
Chris Steyn (18:18.837)
How fabricate you mediate MK will fabricate in the upcoming municipal elections and in the subsequent nationwide election?
Phapano Phasha (18:26.798)
I believe MKP is inclined to fabricate neatly. And I believe that is on yarn of of the failures of the political events which can presumably well per chance be currently governing, be it a local authorities or nationwide authorities. I believe, , after we detect at the patterns, from COPE to UDM and the total other tiny events, your ActionSA, you watch that the South Africans are craving for commerce. And so that they still agree with this hope that there would possibly presumably well per chance be a political occasion which can presumably well per chance be in a field to commerce their fortunes. So I believe how we detect at MK or how we stay up for MK, it’s no longer going to again. Other folks are factual shopping for hope. Other folks are hopeless and folks are helpless. So our provider start ranges for the time being are rather low. And now we agree with got seen that also at municipal level how political entrepreneurs agree with used the coffers of the states to enhance themselves. So, and nothing has modified.
And I believe another vital declare is the precise indisputable truth that capital in South Africa has invested so worthy money dividing the dusky vote and it is not very helping. We’ve seen it with Colleen Makhubele who was as soon as given tons of money all the scheme by elections, primarily on yarn of she was as soon as pushing the yarn, , she was as soon as pro-Israeli, but rather evidently it was as soon as factual industry for her. She factual wished funding. The a linked along side your ActionSA, which was as soon as giving tons of money and all these other political events. So capital has set tons of money into political events on yarn of they desire to administer and they also desire to pursue, but indirectly they desire to divide dusky votes. It has no longer assisted.
So I believe, as I mentioned, MK will garner tons of votes on yarn of of these deficiencies.
But I also mediate that if capital in South Africa begins investing in dusky abilities, we are in a position to watch an odd form of voter who does no longer stir to a new occasion every new occasion, , every season. Yeah. But a voter who appears to be like at the philosophy of a occasion, who appears to be like at the meritocracy, if the occasion, , has essentially the most attention-grabbing folks that can again.
Phapano Phasha (20:51.126)
So the parents that fund political events and who in the most principal are whites, they fabricate no longer appear to be helping our democratic mission on yarn of they desire to desire who will agree with to lead with out trying if whether the person is match for cause and whether that political events will be in a field to commerce and transform this nation. So that is the principal predicament.
And unfortunately with MK, it’s no longer premised on any meritocracy. It’s many folks, as I mentioned, who’re wounded, who’re working to the subsequent most efficient declare. But with time, on yarn of also the occasion is mainly no assorted to the ANC. They’re working round looking to form structures on yarn of they desire branches which can again MK in direction of native elections. So it’s no longer in any case assorted to the ANC on yarn of they’re no longer fervent on approach that would focal point on changing the lives of the parents.
The massive majority of folks are in poverty, they’re in squalor, in, , they are factual in depridation. So they’re no longer talking to that. They’re factual the structures to attend them score the subsequent elections. But as I mentioned, they’ll be a valorous power on yarn of unfortunately folks that adjust the politics of this nation haven’t learned anything else. They haven’t learned anything else from funding the president of the ANC. The ANC is as unsafe and as bankrupt as earlier than. And it does no longer even seem as if it needs to commerce. It does no longer detect as if the ANC needs to score the subsequent elections. After which you even agree with these other events. So it’s rather an indictment that, as we head in direction of the native elections, as a society, we fabricate no longer agree with these that we are in a position to in any case count on, who know how you would possibly possibly compose jobs, who agree with created employment of their lifetime. So you don’t agree with any of these items, be it in the EFF, be it in the ANC, be it in MK. You fabricate no longer agree with the calibre of folks which agree with started any manufacturing unit. You’ve folks that talk about about changing our lives. Many of them, obviously, they’ve benefited. Many of them, they’ve, , extraordinarily benefited from patronage.
Phapano Phasha (23:17.4)
They’re multimillionaires who agree with by no scheme labored of their lives. And yeah, that’s where we’re for the time being. And by the map, these are points that I broaden in, even in MK, I fabricate broaden after I was as soon as there and after I was as soon as helping, these are points that I’d constantly broaden, , particularly organs of folks’s energy. Because I mediate you would possibly possibly’t agree with political powers where at the cease of the day, it will agree with to again me or my rapid family. And that’s one declare that you simply…you’ve, and folks don’t in any case, voters don’t care that MK goes to be a legacy mission for Duduzile Zuma, Nklamulu and relations. Other folks don’t care about that. They detect at Zuma, they watch what he did and they also are factual admire, neatly, he was as soon as . So we’re no longer presenting anything else that is better than, , the ANC or the DA itself – and your John Steenhuisen himself, I don’t think he even comes discontinuance t o shaping and solving the complications that we’re currently faced with.
Chris Steyn (24:26.653)
Lastly, what fabricate you fabricate of the Government of Nationwide Unity? Attain you mediate this would possibly occasionally final?
Phapano Phasha (24:34.798)
I don’t think so. think no doubt a number of the things that now we agree with got to initiate is the truth that President Ramaphosa is in his 2d duration of time. And even earlier than the elections, the outcomes agree with been launched, there agree with been folks that agree with been already planning to grab over from him. So one day, President Ramaphosa goes to switch away. The quiz is when. And how soon will that be? And as soon as President Ramaphosa leaves, there goes to be a commerce inside the ANC, on yarn of there are folks inside the ANC who’re the DA and who’re asking if the DA shares the a linked ideals as the ANC. But then any individual else can then query, what are these ideals? Since the bulk of ANC leaders at the least, they’ve been given money by capital, by white capital, and they also’ve enriched themselves as an alternate of guaranteeing that this money trickles exact down to empower frequent folks on the bottom. So there goes to be a shift.
But what will be attention-grabbing is that I seen John with the President of China, and he was as soon as greeting the President. It scheme that he’s also complying to the current map, on yarn of we obviously know how DA has the least bit times considered China. So it’s rather evident that John is factual assimilating into the GNU. And the quiz is, John is now President Steenhuisen and the ministers of the DA and the entourage of the DA who now agree with earn admission to to patronage. How are they willing to lose this patronage? Now they’ll sort, or they’ve obtained sort of the Blue Lights. They’ve obtained sort of snarl sources. Are they willing to lose this privilege? So the GNU for the time being is on a shaky ground. And even in KZN, lets watch new trends with the MKP going exact into a coalition with other events admire the IFP or the ANC.
Phapano Phasha (26:58.666)
But obviously this would possibly occasionally be dictated by the dynamics of the time on yarn of as you would possibly presumably well per chance know politicians fabricate no longer handle their consciousness or they fabricate no longer appear to be ideological, they handle the present crisis or the dynamics.
But in relation to the GNU, I know for a indisputable truth that the contestation for the brand new ANC President has already started. So I believe this is in a position to presumably well also depend on who’s accessible in since the parents that now surround President Ramaphosa inside the ANC are inclined to switch with what President Ramaphosa is pronouncing, on yarn of also just a few of them know that they’ve obtained the Pronounce Capture allegations. Some of them are terrified that they are usually arrested.
And I believe for me that is, and as you’re pronouncing in closing, that’s an indictment in relation to South African politics that this GNU it’s no longer premised on any values or on any morality. That we are in a position to detect at the, , we are in a position to grab the MK and detect the least bit these folks that for the time being are in Parliament, but we fabricate no longer agree with the conviction to quiz the parents which can presumably well per chance be section of this GNU. These are folks that, , the allegations of corruption, it’s so substantive.
And we’re no longer pronouncing anything else about it on yarn of we desire to galvanize investors. But we fabricate no longer care about ethics. We’re no longer attracted to ethics. We’re no longer that there are folks inside the ANC who’re in Parliament who will agree with to be accounting for what they did all the scheme by the Zuma abilities, all the scheme by the Thabo Mbeki abilities, and even now under President Ramaphosa.
I imply, we’re no longer having a dialog, or the DA particularly, which is supposed to be an opposition, is rarely any longer even questioning the outcomes which agree with factual come out from the Auditor Total touching on to the municipalities, since the DA itself has been captured. It has been captured by Pronounce energy. It has been captured by these sources. And I believe these are also the limitations of energy, that in the event that they initiate questioning how the ANC is failing in these form of municipalities, the ANC would then kick them out of this GNU.
Phapano Phasha (29:23.842)
So I bet these are the change limitations that the DA is faced with. But I also desire to be an optimist. There is probability that the GNU would possibly presumably well per chance seize the nation ahead. There is that probability. There is that probability that folks which can presumably well per chance be from the DA and the industry team will come on board so that this nation is rebuilt on yarn of we are going to not come up with the money for to agree with a nation where childhood are in squalor, where childhood are hopeless and helpless and they also fabricate no longer appear to be modified and agree with become into human doable. So there would possibly be that doable of the GNU taking the nation ahead. So I don’t desire to be radical on this points on yarn of at the cease of the day, our folks in any case desire to eat and it’s no longer happening. Other folks need jobs. So I’m hoping that this GNU, which is plagued by this gross folks and plagued by this dynamics and plagued by just a few of folks whom one can hiss that they’re on the some distance Moral. But one hopes that this combination, as I mentioned, will regain this nation. But I don’t know how long this would possibly occasionally final.
Chris Steyn (30:51.541)
Thanks. That was as soon as activist and commentator Phapano Phasha talking to BizNews and I’m Christine. Thanks, Ms. Phasha.
Phapano Phasha (31:00.428)
My pleasure
Learn also:
